近日，针对外媒对中国人权问题的质疑，英国学者约翰罗斯发表了他的看法：“要我说，中国的人权就是让人活下来。”

采访中，主持人提问罗斯，中国在哪些方面做得好，其他国家可以借鉴？在中国亲身经历了疫情的罗斯瞬间开启了“夸赞五连”模式↓↓

“中国是正确的”

“中国是唯一一个控制住疫情的国家”

“你们陆续都会采取中国的抗疫措施”

“中国是最值得你们学习的”

“要多与中国交流、多咨询建议”

……

1

摆数据：确诊病例数持续减少

罗斯首先举了中国确诊病例数据变化的案例，他认为，中国迅速控制住确诊病例上涨的趋势，并持续6周保持确诊病例数减少，向世界证明疫情是可控的。

我认为数据已经很能说明问题了。

I think the data shows this is absolutely quite clear.

首先，1月23日中国武汉开始封城。中国新增确诊病例在接下来的13天中持续增长，于2月4日达到顶峰，新增确诊人数达到3887例。此后的6周，新增确诊病例持续减少。这证明了增长是可以被遏制的。

Firstly, China to say that the first lockdown in Wuhan came on January 23. The worst day for cases were then 3887 on February 4 that is to add 13 rising days of cases. Since then, you've had six weeks of declining cases. It showed that it could be stopped.

2

讲道理：中国是唯一一个

完全控制住疫情的国家

在回应中国曾被指责信息不透明的问题时，罗斯直击问题核心： 想问题不能过于理想主义，面对从未见过的病毒，谁都不可能做到完美。相反，中国出现疫情后果断采取措施，并且成为唯一一个完全控制住疫情的国家。

我们没有必要理想主义。没有人之前见过这个病毒，所以从一开始就做得完美无瑕是不可能的。中国也没有说他们全都做对了。但他们一旦决定好，就果断实施。

Well, there is no need to romanticize things. This was a virus which nobody had ever seen before. Therefore it is absolutely impossible that everything will be done right at the beginning. It wasn't and China doesn't claim it was. What they have done is once they decided on decisive measure…

我认为，所有歪曲事实的无理言论最终都会消失。 人们会明白中国是唯一一个完全控制住疫情的国家。因此，中国是你们最应该学习的。

So my view is that all the misrepresentations and nonsense which is coming out will fall away. And people will understand that China is the only country which has got the virus fully under control. And therefore that's the country which you have to study most.



此外，他认为面对来势汹汹的疫情，批评中国完全不合时宜。

这可是二战以来最严重的全球灾难性事件。我觉得现在的情况非常严峻，这些批评中国的无理言论都很不合时宜。

Because I think this is going to be the most global cataclysmic event since world war II. I think the situation is so serious that all this nonsense which is appeared in about China's criticism all just cut through.

3

作对比：西欧与美国比中国严重得多

接下来，罗斯对比了西欧、美国与中国的情况，他认为考虑到中国人口基数大的事实，仅从绝对数字上作比较非常不现实。而从严重程度上来看，欧洲和美国的情况比中国糟糕得多。

西欧和美国的疫情远比中国严重。单单把疫情数据拿出来作比较毫无意义，中国人口世界排名第一，是美国人口的四倍之多，是意大利的二十三倍。

… the outbreak in Western Europe and the United States is much, much worse than the one in China, because it's not very meaningful to make a comparison between absolute numbers when China's population is so much bigger than that of other countries. It's more than four times the size of the United States population, 23 times the size of Italy's population.

如果意大利和中国的确诊病例数相同，从疫情严重程度来看，意大利的情况比中国严重二十三倍。

That means, therefore, for example, when you have the same number of cases in Italy and in China, this actually means the situation is 23 times as bad in Italy in terms of intensity.

截至当地时间3月30日，美国累计确诊病例为16万。如果按照相同人口来换算，这一数据相当于中国的（确诊病例有）70万，但现在中国的总确诊病例刚刚超过8万。这意味着，从人口数量来计算，美国现在的情况比中国糟糕十倍。

Or if you look at the cumulative cases in the US, which is 160,000 as of today, actually compared to China, that is 700,000. Now the total number of cases in China is just slightly over 80,000. This means that the situation in the United States in terms of the population is 10 times as bad as the situation in China.

4

谈方案：“中国措施”最可行

你们陆续都会采取的

罗斯首先分析了美国疫情控制不力的原因就在于：没有采取严格措施。

美国没有采取严格的防疫措施，没有强制让百姓戴口罩，还让他们往外跑。如果持续放任不管，病例数据还会一直增长。

And this is because they are not taken extremely rigorous measures. They not making mask wearing compulsory. They are allowing people to go out. And if you do this, the number of cases will continue to rise.

（美国）政府跟民众说，这不是封城，这是对出行的建议。很遗憾，我觉得这样的措施根本没有用。必须要正式封城，否则不会见效。

……the United States, saying this is not a lockdown, this is a travel advice. I'm sorry that these measures won't deal with it. You have to have a proper lockdown otherwise you won't do.

因而，他得出结论，其他国家都会陆续采纳中国的抗疫方案：采取严格措施，同时要保障民生……因为事实证明，这些措施才是有效的。

最本质的问题是，是否采取了最严格的措施，比如说，是不是只是简单地给人们提出建议。逐渐地，其他国家都会开始实施和中国类似的举措。

But the fundamental thing that you've got to understand is that you've got to impose the strictest possible measures. For example, just simply giving people advice and so on. Gradually each country will be forced to move towards the type of measures which China's taught me.

想让人们乖乖待在家，需要将大量基础设施建设落实到位。比如，给人们派送食物和医疗必需用品。这就需要全面的社会动员。事实证明，中国是正确的。

In order to allow people to stay at home. You have to put in place a tremendous infrastructure, but you’ve got to deliver the food to them. You've got to deliver essential medical supply. So it needs an all-out social mobilization. The facts prove that China was correct.

5

求帮助：要多与中国交流，咨询建议

罗斯认为，在这一关键时期，不应带有政治目的去批判中国，反而应该多向中国学习。

我不是在批评任何人，因为现在形势不容乐观，不是进行政治性批判或攻击任何人的时候。我只想让这些国家学习中国，而不是像西方媒体那样批评中国，他们应该积极同中国交流，向中国咨询建议。

I'm not saying this to criticize anybody, because the situation is much too serious to engage in sort of political or other types of attacking of people. What I want them to do is I want them to study China instead of the criticism which is appearing in western press. They should be desperately in contact with China, asking them for advice.

罗斯表示，中国制造业完备，可以给其他医疗设备短缺的国家提供帮助，因此，他诚挚地建议各国与中国多交流，多咨询。

中国拥有世界上最大的制造业，他们可以帮助其他国家解决医疗设备短缺的问题。所以无论怎么说，他们都应该同中国交流，咨询可行的建议，请求切实可行的帮助。这是我想强调的一点。现在西方的情况甚至比中国最糟的时候还要糟糕多了。

China is also by far the biggest manufacturing country in the world. They can help enormously with the supplies of medical equipment. So in every sense, they should be in contact and asking for every possible advice, every possible practical help from China. That's what I want to stress. Really the situation in the West is much worse than the situation that was even at the worst time of China.

最后，在回应记者关于外界评判中国措施过于严苛的问题时，他说了一句大实话：质疑中国的人权？“要我说，中国的人权就是让人活下来！”

说中国（抗疫措施）太过严苛是无稽之谈。有人曾反驳我说，那中国的人权纪录呢？我回应说，中国的人权就是让人们活下来。

The stuff on draconian is nonsense. I mean, somebody said to me on an exchange, what about China's human rights record? And I said China's human rights record is keeping people alive.

同时，他再次强调，一定要严肃对待现状，最关键的是救人！

我们得非常非常严肃地对待目前的情况。政府必须采取所谓的严苛的做法，否则无法成功阻止疫情蔓延。这就是病毒现在继续在西欧和美国迅速传播的原因。

And therefore this is much, much too seriously. The government is going to have to take what would be called draconian, otherwise they won't succeed in getting on top of it. That's why it's continuing to spread extremely rapidly in western Europe and the United States.

政府得采取措施去救命！而且人们也希望（政府）采取恰当的措施，否则病毒不会停止传播。

They will be forced to save people's lives, and people are demanding that the adequate measures are taken, otherwise the virus will not stop spreading.